Curse

Mashu · Jul 19, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

I was reading another thread in this forum on why Warriors are so underpowered in PvE. Although I do not agree that Warriors are underpowered as in damage dealing (at the moment), there is a differant point I would like to make related to this topic.

The problem I see with warriors is with their armor. Yes, they have the best armor, but when you're partying with other players or henchmen, you can never put it to good use as opponents hardly ever attack you, for example, when you aggro monsters, they will almost all the time run past you and attack the mages, and human opponents do the same.

Warriors need to do what they were meant to do, which is to take damage. Currently, there is no way for them to get hate from opponents, so I propose the addition on a couple of skills which will make Warriors do the job they are supposed to do. Something like the following...

Annoy
Req. 5 Energy
Recast. 10 sec
Cast time. 0 sec (Instant)
Skill. Forces the target foe to attack you.

Exasperate
Req. 15 Energy
Recast. 30 sec
Cast time. 0 sec (Instant)
Skill. Forces the target foe and adjacent foes to attack you.

Note: In PvP these should force the players target cursor onto you.

Although the statistics will need playing around a bit, what do you all think of this idea? Do you think we really need this?

It will make a warriors job in a party less boring and more fun doing the job that they are meant to do!

Dumachum · Jul 19, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27

You are aware that Captain Guru is a troll aren't you? And not just on THIS website. 2 months ago he was giving Guild Wars ****ty reviews, 1 month ago he was thumping his chest about how Warriors were the most godly class in the game and how non Warriors, Monks, Elementalists aren't needed and shouldn't be grouped. Now he is whining about how Warriors "flat out suck".

Mashu · Jul 19, 2005, 08:34 PM // 20:34

OK. I will remove his reference. Thanks

Aracos79 · Jul 19, 2005, 08:34 PM // 20:34

This is sort of off topic... but as someone who plays a warrior in PvE a lot, I must say they are not underpowered, you just need to play them properly. For example, the OP talked about how mobs rush past you to attack casters. True... if you stay bunched up. A good warrior/group will allow the warrior to run up ahead, draw the aggro, WAIT until the mobs are focused on him, THEN the casters run up and do their thing. This way it is much more likely that the mobs will continue to attack the warrior, leaving the casters unimpeded.

Of course this is useless in PvP as humans know better than to pound on the big, fat ox of a warrior. And this is where warriors struggle, and where I think the OP's suggestions can help.

The Gilded · Jul 19, 2005, 08:35 PM // 20:35

I agree with you though. As a warrior, I always get my **** jumped when a mage dies because I didn't do my job. Well how am I supposed to do my job when a monster aggros the mage while I am slicing it up? FFXI did a good job managing enemy AI and hate control, Guild wars should look into a way to give warriors the ability to perform thier roles better.

duverga · Jul 19, 2005, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mashu

Note: In PvP these should force the players target cursor onto you.

Terrible idea. I'm a human and that means I get to choose who I target. You don't want me hitting your squishy casters? Then do something about it. Block me, snare me, nuke me before I get there...

Acan Vishnu · Jul 19, 2005, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Warriors can keep agro on themselves, the problem arises with the fact that doing so requires the entire group to... well, just not be stupid. If the rest of the group stays outside of the warrior's aggro range while he's drawing then there are really no problems with keeping enemies' fire focused on him (unless someone in your group then uses point-blank spells on the enemies or on your warrior)

Mashu · Jul 19, 2005, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acan Vishnu

Warriors can keep agro on themselves, the problem arises with the fact that doing so requires the entire group to... well, just not be stupid. If the rest of the group stays outside of the warrior's aggro range while he's drawing then there are really no problems with keeping enemies' fire focused on him (unless someone in your group then uses point-blank spells on the enemies or on your warrior)

Although I agree that a well organized party can manage, think about the less experienced people/random public parties, and then think of the henchmen. The latter being the absolute mindless :-).

Linkie · Jul 19, 2005, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Eww. If you ever mess with controls on my client, get out of my internet.

theclam · Jul 19, 2005, 08:46 PM // 20:46

You have to take advance of collision detection and the aggro bubble. If you stand between a mob and the casters, the mob will start hitting you. If the casters stay out of a mob's aggro bubble, then they won't get hit. Managing aggro is a team effort.

Ristaron · Jul 19, 2005, 08:46 PM // 20:46

A good warrior is neither underpowered or boring. Play them properly and the only thing that can stop you is damage that ignores armour.
The fact that most other people ignore you is your ticket to winning. If you're a good warrior you'll defend your healer or take out the enemy monk or mesmer (working with your team).

I've seen so many threads suggesting some aggroing power to warriors for PvP. My answer is that they will be severely overused. A team of 7 warriors and a monk, imagine. You would never hit the monk. The game would slow to a gradual halt and the only team that would work is 'x' amount of warriors and 'y' amount of monks. (ex. 5:3).

There exist enough skilled warriors in the game to make teams like that, and dominate PvP.
If you are going to have something like that. The recharge needs to be 90 seconds, and it should be in effect only 5 seconds. Force warriors to have timing, not the usual 'IM A L33T M33TSHI3LD' mantle most warriors don.

Damon Windwalker · Jul 19, 2005, 08:48 PM // 20:48

I do think that a warrior should have some ability to "taunt" or something - a way to increase the chances of him being the one attacked, or distracting the agro off of another PC....

Aracos79 · Jul 19, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by duverga

Terrible idea. I'm a human and that means I get to choose who I target. You don't want me hitting your squishy casters? Then do something about it. Block me, snare me, nuke me before I get there...

With all due respect, I think you're being a little shortsighted here. The Warriors job is to keep high-value, low-armor targets alive. And as the OP illustrated, in PvP a Warrior has no tools with which to do that. Whether you're fighting a human, or an AI mob, a Warrior needs to at least have the POSSIBILITY of doing his job. Whether he actually can or not, is up to his skill and that of his team.

I have no problem being forced by a skill to attack the warrior (although for balance purposes, it would need to be treated like a hex, not just a shout). You would just need to find a way to counter his "taunt". I think this would add a significant dimension to the game, and PvP combat as it is now.

Acan Vishnu · Jul 19, 2005, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Warriors can protect important characters now, Protector's Strike, Bull's Strike, Hamstring (any of the crippling attacks), Hammer Knockdowns, etc., etc. Warriors that I've played PvP with alot have used these and they work very well -- Use your enemy's tendencies against them, many groups with single mindedly chase a monk leaving them wide open to all sorts of nasties.

As far as the implications in PvE... I really see no reason to cater even more to people who can't manage to simply work together with their group.

Epinephrine · Jul 19, 2005, 09:00 PM // 21:00

A warrior in PvP has the same ability to influence targetting as any other class does.

The reason that they don't attack the warrior is that he's not a big threat - so make yourself a bigger threat! Warriors do kill people, and the good ones do it well. Sure, they are trying to desroy your monk, but lately monks just work on making themselves unkillable - so while they try to hurt your monk, hurt them.

As someone said, even vs the computer, the trick is that it is a TEAM game. Warriors have a role in PvP, and it's not the same as in PvE - in PvE they are there to take hits and cluster enemies and such - in PvP it's to run interference and make enough of a nuisance of themselves that the enemy has to deal with it.

Avantos · Jul 19, 2005, 10:23 PM // 22:23

And in addition to the above poster's roles for a warrior, close-range, sustained damage "nuker".

If you attack the monk enough that they have to heal themselves, they won't heal their team.

If you start knocking out casters or force them to run, they aren't casting (especially useful against Mesmers as most equip their skillsets for anti-mage rather than anti-warrior).

And so on and so forth.

If such a skill was implemented, the most it SHOULD do is switch the enemy's target to the warrior (similar to Warcraft 3's taunt system)--in which case the human enemy simply clicks on their desired target again.

Talesin Darkbriar · Jul 19, 2005, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mashu

when you're partying with other players or henchmen, you can never put it to good use as opponents hardly ever attack you, for example, when you aggro monsters, they will almost all the time run past you and attack the mages, and human opponents do the same.

Did you notice the terrain has specific pathing boundaries?
That is, you are severely restricted as to where you can and cannot go.
(severely in relation to WoW, EQ2, Lineage 2, et al.)

You don't need aggro control, annoy, or any new abilities. You need to start thinking outside the box.
In tactical games we call it zones of control and chokepoints.
I suggest you learn this yourself - you'll be better off for it.

Talesin

Lampshade · Jul 20, 2005, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Warriors arnt underpowered.....

Magus · Jul 20, 2005, 05:06 AM // 05:06

If anything, warriors are one of the most overpowered professions in PvE. The only thing besides skills that does more than 0 damage to my warrior are the wurms, aatxes, super monsters, etc; and this isn't even taking into account my ability to dish out heavy damage.

Thomasuwoo · Jul 20, 2005, 05:18 AM // 05:18

I've said in the other thread and I'll say it here too warriros aren't underpowered. You may be one of the least tartgeted but you should be taking this into considereation when choosing your skills. I hear it in the tombs all the time "Get this warrior off me!"
Warriors can harras the other team just like any other class. It's doing it proporly and really casuing the other team greif that seperrates the average warrior from the good one.